In this episode of the Women in Transport Podcast, we spotlight our impactful flagship courses Lead and Advance.
Shireen Ali-Khan and guests Laura Tofts, Fi Hamilton, Nkiruka (Nky) Nzekwu, Angela Gainsford, Sonya Byers, and Iain Smith explore how these programmes build confidence, leadership skills, and supportive networks.
Among the guests, past participants and facilitators share personal stories of transformation and empowerment. The conversation also touches on the importance of allyship, representation, and sustaining impactful changes within the industry. Key highlights include the benefits of coaching, the significance of creating safe spaces, and the lasting ripple effects on both personal and professional levels.
Click below to listen online, or subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music or Audible.
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Laura Tofts on the power of Lead (in the most unusual of places)
Nky Nzekwu: “Walking away from Lead… I knew who I was, I knew who I wanted to be”
Find out more about the Lead and Advance programmes:
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Sonya Byers: Hello, I'm Sonya Byers, Chief Executive of Women in Transport. Welcome to Season 3 of the Women in Transport Podcast, where we're sharing the voices and stories of women from across the transport sector. Each episode, we explore the experiences, challenges, and triumphs of those shaping the industry, spotlighting the power of representation, allyship and leadership at every level.
Thanks for tuning in. Let's dive into today's conversation.
Shireen Ali-Khan: Welcome to the Women In Transport Podcast. I'm Shireen Ali-Khan, and in this episode we're exploring two of our flagship programmes, Lead and Advance, and the impact they're having on women across the transport sector. From building confidence and leadership skills to creating lasting networks of support, these programmes are about more than professional growth. They're about belonging, representation, and real change.
So today we'll hear from past participants, facilitators and leaders who share how Lead and Advance have helped shape their careers, amplify their voices, and open doors for others.
Welcome everybody. Welcome to our guests. Please introduce yourself.
Nky: Hello everyone. My name is Nkiruka Nzekwu. Everyone calls me Nky. I'm a project controls manager in TFL and I'm also, I've just recently finished a tenure as a vice chair for the Women's Colleague Network Group for TfL.
Angela: Hi, my name's Angela Gainsford. I co-designed with Sonya the Advance mentoring scheme for Women in Transport. I'm an independent consultant, and most of my career before I went self-employed was with London Underground and subsequently TfL, when we became one large organisation, across a variety of jobs.
Sonya: Hi everyone. I'm Sonya Byers, Chief Executive of Women in Transport.
Laura: Hi, I'm Laura Tofts, and I'm head of product information at Alexander Dennis, and we are a global bus manufacturer.
Fiona: Yeah, I'm Fi Hamilton. I'm a regional transport manager for Constellation Cold Logistics and also co-founder of the Women in Cold Chain initiative. I've been in transport for 28 years, started off as a driver many, many years ago. And now for my sins, a regional transport manager.
Iain: My name's Iain. I'm one of the two facilitators of Lead along with Shireen and so we get to work together most weeks actually. When I'm not doing Lead, I run Network for Skills. We're a consultancy company. We do stuff in behaviour and leadership, and also in the world specifically of bus refranchising and other transport change. We are one of the sponsors of the fantastic Advance mentorship programme, and we've done that for a bunch of years, and that's one of the ways that we like to give back.
Shireen: And so I'll reintroduce myself because not only do I have the privilege of hosting our Women in Transport podcast, but this episode I'll be speaking a little bit about my experiences, not only being a facilitator, but actually being on Lead 1. I forgot for a second there. So yeah, what a journey to have gone through the mill. What I haven't done is been anything on Advance yet. I feel like that's going to be my next thing for 2026. Wonderful. Thank you.
So, as I said, welcome. We are talking this episode all about the Lead programme, but also the Advance programme. Why does Women in Transport have these really good flagship programmes? What the needs are, what you have benefited from these programmes. And we'll take ourselves through the questions there.
But really the first question that I'm sure you might not have necessarily reflected on for a while, and our listeners would really love to hear, is actually, what made you sign up for those programmes? And I know for some of our guests, you've been on both of those programmes. I know Laura, when we were speaking in the pre-chat, you mentioned that you were actually on both at the same time. I don't think I knew that at the time.
So Laura, I might come to you first. What made you sign up for Lead and Advance? Were there particular motivations or challenges, or were you in a particular space in your life?
Laura: The draw for me was the fact it was so women-centric. You know, I think that the transport industry and the bus industry where I work is very male bias. My boss is male, my colleagues are male, my peers are male. Most of my team is male. And I really wanted to do something that put me in a space with other women who are in the same situation as me. And that really was the draw for me.
Shireen: Wow. Really strong draw. And for our listeners, we'll put links into the, into the episode information to find out more, and obviously, we'll talk a bit more about the programmes themselves as well today. But that shows that you were in a particular point, perhaps in your life, that you thought, I really need to be in a space that Women in Transport offers.
Nky: Yes. Lead, I've always said it, every opportunity that I get, Lead was fantastic. It was an eye-opener for me.
One of the reasons I got on the course was because, as vice chair for the Women's Colleague Network Group, 10% of our budget went towards the development of the chair and vice chair. And so the chair did it first, and then I went next. It was such an eye-opener because I was at a crossroads actually, with being a mum; my children were getting older and didn't need me quite as much, and so I was ready to climb higher, do better, and all that good stuff. So, you know, coming on to Lead was, you know, amazing.
Fiona: When we started the initiative with Women in Cold Chain, you know, it's very small, still very small. And doing research, I came across Women in Transport. I think I was actually, I was on the first podcast. I don't even know how that came about, but I ended up on the first podcast. And obviously that led to me looking at Lead, and I think you yourself suggested that I have a look into it. So I went back to my company and asked about it.
But I think then, in terms of Advance, having been on Lead, and how I progressed through that and gained confidence, I think that that's when I wanted to sign up as a mentor to give back and share my experiences.
Shireen: I love that. Thank you. And you're right, we, we connected, I think we connected on LinkedIn actually. And then I asked you to be a guest on the first episode, and I think that might be the episode with Sonya as well, just looking at the topic of some of the oppressions around being a woman, all this stuff, you know, the kind of the why piece that we do talk about a lot, but you know, necessarily so.
And I do remember our conversation evolved, but it shows you that the network is so supportive that we meet people and say, have you thought about this? Have you seen this? And it's almost, if you don't have that group of people lifting you up, then actually sometimes you do miss out on opportunities. Nky, you said, it was coming through the role as chair. Fi, some of that came through our conversations. Laura, you saw that you actually needed to be in a space where you felt lifted and heard and we'll come to that in a moment actually around how important that network is, but it just really, it just comes to me hearing you speak about your whys.
Iain: I really think this makes a difference, and certainly the stories we hear from participants just fills me with a feeling of humbleness and a feeling of delight, because that's surely what we want to do in our work lives is contribute, make things better, add value, those kind of things, and Lead gives me a real opportunity to do that. I'm never not grateful for being able to be part of the Women in Transport organisation and the team that runs Lead.
Shireen: So thank you. My next question will be, having been through those programmes, through Advance, through Lead, and we speak a lot in general about how we show up, right? Like everyone's told to show up in a certain way in their lives. Has Lead and Advance helped you to show up differently? Does it change the way are in your life? Are you more kind of active in your own life in a way that you might not have been before? Any particular lightbulb moments? What were those changing faces that you saw when you were on those programmes?
Iain: Yeah, I've got something to say on the transformations part, which is I think there's probably three or four that we see most often. The first is actually about taking control. I think often people are like in a river and it's going somewhere, but it's not necessarily going somewhere of their choosing. And so changing that, I think is, very helpful.
We talk a lot about how you see a situation affects how you behave and that affects how the results you get, pan out. And I think that's the second one, I would say, helping people have different perspectives. We do a lot in the space of confidence and, you know, everyone's got impostors and saboteurs, so unpicking all that and spinning that round. So actually the participants get to see that these blips in the way the brain works, these impostors, these saboteurs, that actually can be their best friend. And again, I guess that plays back to the how you see things bit.
And then finally, the bit that I like most is that people begin to go for it. They begin to decide this is their time. And we often describe how this is Project You. So insert your name, project Iain, project Shireen, project Sonya, whatever you like. But if you are at work and you are busy, everyone will tell you how important all the projects that you are up to are. But the one that really matters is Project You.
Laura: Yeah, I remember reading about Lead and it was a comment from someone who'd been in an earlier cohort, and they said it was life-changing, and I laughed. You go on leadership training, you read the blurb and you think, yeah, okay, whatever. It is, plain and simple, and I, you know, we talk about lightbulb moments. There was a moment for me that I like to share because it summed it up for me, but I'd had a coaching session that had come off the back of one of the exercises that we'd done for Lead. I think it was the 360 feedback exercise. And I’d come off the call with my coach, and I'd been rushing because I was going to get my hair done. And I was sat in the hairdresser's chair, and I'm just waiting on the hairdresser and I'm flicking through my phone, and it was a little meme that came up and it said, you deserve to work somewhere that brings out the softness in you, not the survivor. And I cried and I, I remember sitting there feeling cold and emotional and crying in the hairdressers because yes, we do.
And I realised that that was the thing that had changed in the mindset that I had. And that was the point that Lead had had got me to there and then. You know, I get a visceral reaction even just talking about it. That, that, that was it. That was the life-changing moment. That was the bit that I then, you know, realised why I was there and, and why I was doing it.
Shireen: Oooh, I love that. That's really powerful, Laura. And by the way, listeners, Laura's got very cool hair, so absolutely, being at the hairdressers, necessary. But even just hearing you describe that moment, that has genuinely brought tears into my eyes, and the way you describe things kind of takes you there, look Sonia as well, because it's weird, isn't it? It's weird. You're right to laugh initially when it's life-changing. Yeah, of course it is. Like when we see so much online or social media that everything's life-changing. Everyone's a millionaire. Everyone's up at three in the morning. Everyone's getting 12 hours sleep being up at three in the morning. Everyone's having protein shakes. Everyone's doing all the big stuff. But actually a lot of it's BS, right? Or a lot of it's just made up. But to have this genuine, it's life changing, to be at the end of it.
Laura: And I think that's a really important point. You know, it's people are painting a picture, but in reality the majority of us are just surviving. And that was the moment very, very clearly in my head, I went from, you know, surviving to thriving. And that was, that point, that mindset change. And that's the thing that I talk about when people ask me about Lead. That's the bit that sums it up for me.
Angela: It sounds to me like it's something about personal authenticity as well, and being a whole person in your workplace, without getting overly dramatic about it, but just not just being a stereotype role.
Laura: You know, I had always been painted as the aggressive woman in the room, you know, and actually that wasn't coming from a place of aggression. It was coming from that, just trying to survive in the situations I was in, in these rooms full of men, and being that lone female. And that was the, you know, from the survival to the softness. And that has permeated not just through my work life and who I am as a leader, but also into my personal life and how I deal with conflict and other situations outwith of work as well.
Shireen: Yeah. Huge. Hugely powerful. Fi, Nky, does that resonate around those changing moments?
Fiona: When I joined Lead, it was very last-minute. I think literally I'd signed up the week before and the first session was the week after, and I was actually on holiday in a caravan in the middle of Wales. And, I logged onto my computer, the wind was going, and I kind of sat and I had this moment and I thought, what am I doing here? I didn't, you know, I very much, that first session felt like I wasn't kind of worthy of sitting there with these people.
And then fast-forward, to one of the last sessions we had, where I think there was a few tears and, you know, a lot of emotion and, and sitting there and being really vulnerable. And I think that's one of the things, and again through the couple of workshops that we've had with Women in Cold Chain, it’s seeing these women in high positions being vulnerable and speaking their truth and, you know, the struggles that they go through. And I think it's a really healthy thing that we don't do enough of. And I love that about the Lead programme, that we can be in a space where we can be vulnerable and truthful about how we feel.
Shireen: Yeah, absolutely. And we say on Lead, be vulnerable with people that will hold space for that vulnerability. And I think that on Lead, we do that, we create that safe space really quickly. And there's statistics around how actually in virtual spaces trust is found earlier on. Because instinctively you might think, oh, we need to be in a room to do all of this. But I think by having it as a virtual programme, you have women from across the country in a way that you wouldn't be able to otherwise. Can you imagine having to every Tuesday commute for four hours? Like we know that's not going to work, right? But actually in a virtual space, you are in a caravan in Wales able to click on. So that's funny. What kind of dedication to be able to do that. But that safety that comes from holding space for people, I feel like that's kind of priceless. You can't really put a figure onto that.
Nky, I know you were going to come in as well.
Nky: Yes, I was going to say it was life-changing for me. And this is not just a cliche. It kind of opened my eyes because it helped me know a little bit more about myself, dig into myself.
The aha moment for me was learning about saboteurs and me building my personal board of directors or supporters. In other words, no-one was coming to save me; I had to do that myself and make sure that I had the right people around me. It gave me, Lead gave me the confidence to be myself. If I do me, though, everybody else will adjust, right? Before it was always trying to contort myself, you know, to fit the room. But walking away from Lead after completing the course, you know, I knew who I was. I knew who I wanted to be, and I started taking steps towards that person that I want to be by trying to network. And one of the other big things was coaching. I'd never done coaching in my life, and we had some sessions of coaching. I was like, what is this? You know, I've gone on to have a personal coach, you know, putting money where my mouth is because I saw the value in those sessions. So I've had to make an investment in myself by getting a coach for myself. So Lead has been truly life, life-changing, and -saving, in a way.
Shireen: I love the journey that you've described, but I really love what you said that people will adjust. I love that. I'm going to totally use that in conversations, just FYI, because you are right. People will adjust. They will learn and they will adjust and it's okay. You know, you constantly try to fit yourself around others, but you are one, right? They will adjust. I love that. And I love that you mentioned the benefit of coaching, similar to what Laura said before, you don't know until you try it. So when you see someone say life-changing, you're like, yeah, right. But actually, when you are in the conversations with good coaches, and Iain we'll talk in a minute actually about the coaches and the mentors on the Advance and the Lead programmes because they're not all women, actually. We have a mix of people and that role of allyship and network, it's so vital to what is the beauty of Women in Transport. Actually, yes, it's Women in Transport, but as long as you believe in the advancement of women, you are welcome. And so I love that ability to have that kind of shared space that you really touched upon there, Nky.
Laura, I'm going to come back to you. Do you remember the workshop we did, because it was actually on your cohort where, through conversations around confidence, we then developed a piece about hormones. I remember putting it into the chat, and I was like, does anyone feel like their hormones play up around confidence? You know, does it link? And everyone was like, yes, yes, yes. So, I just wonder, could you just talk a little bit about what that meant for you, that feeling and just around talking about hormones and how it shows up with confidence and all that kind of stuff?
Laura: Yeah, again, that was quite a big moment because off the back of that, I'm now on HRT and that has had a huge effect. And I didn't realise how much of how I felt was related to my hormones, or lack of them. Thanks, estrogen! And actually, again, this is something that so many women will go through in their working lives. And when you start to look at the statistics of how it affects women and women leaving work or not continuing to progress because of the lack of confidence, because of the anxiety, because of all the other horrible symptoms that come with it. And actually, again, Lead gave us that space where we could talk about that and we could explore that. And I mean, we still have very loud conversations in my office about peri-menopause and, and we're not going, no one's going to apologise for that. But it's, again, it's about having that space to explore these feelings and these emotions and everything else. And that was just another bonus from that Lead cohort.
Shireen: Oh, thank you. And genuinely, yeah, that was a new thing that we put into the programme. But everything we do is based on, yes, there's core learning, but we will always adapt to the time and what the learners need. And that was a very kind of natural conversation that came out of it. And as a result, we now always have a piece around confidence, but how our hormones impact our confidence, where our hormones are going, each type within a 28-day cycle, you know, if you have one, but actually what does that mean for you day-to-day? What could you do with a bit more control? Certainly from my Lead experience, being on Lead one, we were just coming out of the Covid period, we were still kind of in that weird lockdown type space, so actually virtual learning was still really new, certainly for me. And you’re coming out of this very uncertain time of, you know, working from home, learning from home, living at home, it was a lot of being at home, right? But then being open to a group of people who are up and down the country to get the different experiences, understanding what everyone's going through.
I think for me it taught me to be deliberate. Actually really taking that beat before we react, that we often don't find we have because it's like onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. But what if you took that moment to think before you reacted? What if you were strategic? What if you had that board of directors who are your board of directors? So it was that kind of sense of deliberateness that I really found empowering. And so when I do a lot of my leadership training and facilitation for me it is about that: What if you just took a step before you did some stuff? What if you just had that space? And we don't allow ourselves, I find, in this kind of very fast-natured world to give ourselves space. And what if that was the norm and that wasn't the privilege. That was actually just what everyone had. So for me, that was one of very many.
I do remember in the second workshop where in the workbook we ask ourselves what would our loved ones say about us? And for me, every person was she works hard, and I thought, how boring that my only one factor is that she works hard. I thought that's so awful! You know, one day I'm not going to be here anymore; I don't want the one big thing to be that. She worked hard. And so that was a real kind of eye-opener around those limiting beliefs that my value is tied within my, oh I'll cry now, but that we tie our value against our ability to work hard.
And I just thought, no, that's not the way I want to do this. And a phrase I heard recently, which is another one of my go-to phrases, is if hard work was the answer, then the donkey would own the farm. And I just thought, boy oh boy, fingers snaps, like how true? And I thought, I don't want to be a donkey, I don't want to be known for someone who just works hard. And so Lead really opened up my eyes to actually, is it working hard? Is it relying on your network? Is it being smart? And I feel now I'm definitely doing stuff that I wouldn't have been doing had I not been on Lead.
Angela: It sounds like Lead is a fantastic opportunity to really focus on a number of key topic areas and, I suppose, to pivot to thinking about Advance for a minute, I guess that's offered to a wider group of the membership cohort in a more one-to-one basis, so they actually don't conflict with each other.
And I can understand why Laura would've done both, because confidence is an absolute theme that comes out, or lack of. And it sounds like they do complement each other, because they offer different things. Advance is a one-to-one with an either male or female mentor, but it's a safe space. And I think we've talked a lot about safe spaces as well.
Shireen: And absolutely our conversation, it really is pivoting now. We've heard a lot about the transformations that have come from people being on Lead, and a little bit about Advance, but Sonya and Angela, take the floor. Tell us a bit more about how many people have gone through Advance. I was hearing, Angela, you mentioned that Advance actually, nearly, nearly a decade of Advance. I hadn't realised that. Tell us, tell us more about this.
Angela: I guess next year we'll be launching our 10th year, so we'll definitely celebrate that. So absolutely 2026 would be the launch and 2027 it would be when it happens. And that will be the 10th year, so amazing.
Sonya can talk to how many people have been on the programme, but typically between 30 and 45 pairs a year. It depends on the number who apply, and we need really good mentors as well who we can match with the mentees. I think the theme that comes out is lack of confidence, needing a safe space to talk, career progression, or it can be specific challenges that people face. So it's a whole variety of things, and we open it up to all members so that they can be a recent entrant to a job, recent graduate or not. Everything from a station assistant or a seafarer right up to heading towards the C-suite or head of department across many functions and many industries. So it gives me joy.
We talk about what gives you satisfaction in what you do. For me, the reason I've kept with the programme, I mean it was wonderful to design it with Sonya and I'm glad to say we work really nicely together, so that gives me joy as well. But it's the joy of seeing the changes and the outcomes for pretty much all the participants, including the mentors who get something from it as well.
Shireen: Yeah, I love that. Absolutely. Because everyone gets something from it. Sonya, tell us more around the origin, you know, at what point did Women in Transport think, oh, we need this. And some of those statistics around that, and certainly some of the stories around the mentor benefits as well.
Sonya: Yeah, so it started off because we did, around 2016, there was the 100 Years of Women in Transport campaign. That was a collaboration with Transport for London and a number of other Women In groups and celebrating the contribution of women to transport during the war when lots of women were recruited in to do the transport roles that men had been doing. And interestingly enough, when the men came back from war, women were expected just to give up those jobs. And we have never returned to the same number of women working in transport as we had at that time. So the campaign was there to really celebrate that.
And one of the commitments we made as Women in Transport, what was WTS London then, was to create a mentoring programme that would support women working in the industry. And the campaign year came and went, and it hadn't occurred, and I put my hand up and I said I'd be willing to look at it. I was a volunteer at the time, and Angela happened to mention something at a networking to Katie Hulland, who was vice president at the time, that she had been a mentor on a Birkbeck programme. And Katie just raced round the room and goes, oh you've got to go talk to Sonya about this. And yeah, we met up in a coffee shop with one of Angela's brilliant mindmaps, and we mapped out what we wanted to do for that programme. And Advance was born. So we both volunteered our time for the first couple of years, created the programme, and eventually it became a completely in-house thing that we delivered with the training.
And really life-changing, actually, when we talk about life-changing moments, absolutely life-changing because I had never done anything like that before. It just came from a passion for it. Some skills that I'd built up elsewhere. A commitment to delivering something for our members. I was the events chair at the time, and going into being the vice president. So a transitionary period. And we didn't know, that first year, was it going to work? Were people going to apply? Were we going to get sponsorship for it? And so it was a bit of a gamble, and now, almost 10 years later, we've supported 450 participants through the programme. We've seen people become so much part of the fabric of Women in Transport as a result of the programme. So, you know, myself and Angela delivered the programme together for seven years, and she now does it with Steve Griffiths who came onto the programme because one of the original sponsors, Matthew Regan from Xanta, introduced him to the programme in the second year. Steve went on from being a mentor to be our mentor engagement lead, then went on to be a coach on the Lead programme, to be our events chair, and to now deliver the Advance programme.
So, you know, we'll talk later about allyship. That is true allyship. Somebody who gets it, understands it, holds that space for women, has become one of my best friends, honestly. Genuinely, somebody who I can cry with and I can talk to about things that are going on with me. And you know, Angela as well, from really just being aware of each other in the networking spaces with Women in Transport and now one of my closest friends and confidants and somebody who has mentored me through many, many conversations and many transitions over the years.
So I think of Advance as this thing that has a butterfly effect. It's not just about being on the programme; it's about this two-way benefit that you get. We see the mentees get benefit from achieving their objectives, and maybe not objectives that they set themselves originally. They may have benefited in ways that they weren't expecting, whether that's building network, confidence, changing jobs, finding their passion, which might be outside of transport. And that's okay. You know, because it's about how do these women thrive in their individual careers and journeys and what is right for them, not what we perceive to be right for them. And if they have a positive experience of the transport sector from being through that programme, then all the better because then they will become advocates for it. So that's brilliant. But not just the women: the men and allyship that comes from the mentors. I've seen so many of them come back again and again. Angela, you might want to talk about the mentor we were speaking about yesterday and how they've gone on to then have confidence to mentor other people as well.
And there are so many of the people that we have met, either they have been sponsors of the programme or the mentors on the programme, or there've been mentees that have become mentors who become these lifelong advocates for Women in Transport, become the greatest ambassadors that we could have. Because they do have those moments. They do see the transformations in themselves or the transformations in their mentees, and they see the benefit. And really, I was crying listening to Laura because honestly it gives me so much joy to see that we have built a community where women who are underrepresented can feel seen and heard and safe and can thrive. And I'm off again.
Angela: I can see you're getting emotional, so I'll jump in there. Just quickly talking about a mentor, shall I mention his name? Yeah, Joe Flores, and he started as a slightly uncertain mentor, wondering what skills and abilities he might have. And he's quite senior in Atkins, so you know, and after the first Advance programme that he did as a mentor, he came back to us and he said, this is amazing, I am a mentor, and he went back to his organisation and started mentoring more junior women in his organisation (I'm sure a few men as well), but particularly in the apprenticeship and graduate scheme space, because he wanted, he understood how important allyship was. And we had just helped him see that he had these amazing skills that he could then apply in other contexts, and he's one of our greatest supporters for Women in Transport.
Interestingly though, in the nine years I was reflecting that we've got more senior women coming forward as mentors. I think that's a positive thing in terms of linking it to our wider Women in Transport aims. That we know women are moving up into more senior roles and looking out and wanting to give back. And it's more than 50% in the last few years have been women offering to be mentors. So I wonder whether that reflects a wider change as well. So, yeah. And all the things that Sonya said, you know: visibility, having a voice, feeling that they can get promotion or move between functional areas and be authentic and participate in Women in Transport's wider volunteering elements as well.
Shireen: Yeah, I love all of that journey between being part of one programme, but actually it really makes you part of the infrastructure of not only the Women in Transport network, but the sector in itself. And this naturally takes us onto my next question: how do we make sure that Advance and Lead don't just kind of sit in the personal growth area? And it really is that professional growth, but really about that lasting system change that we're trying to create.
Angela: It changes the conversation. For mentors, they start to think in terms of what impact they can have elsewhere, whether it's as mentors within their organisation or whether it's just raising the conversation about what's needed to ensure there's proper representation of women.
One example is in meetings. Some of the mentors have talked about now stepping forward when they hear some or see someone's voice not being recognised. The classic, she said it three times, but then a man said it and everyone listens. Mentors are having conversations around how they can support people in within their own organisations.
Sonya: Yeah, I see one person can change something, because everyone has the ability to influence, no matter how big or small that might be. So one of the examples that comes to me is that we had matched a mentee - all of the mentees are women, but the mentors are cross-gender. We had matched a mentee with a man and she had previously had a really poor experience with men in the workplace and that had really damaged her trust. And as a result, one of the things she said to us is that that interaction with her mentor was so positive that it changed her mind about the ability of men to be allies in the workplace. How powerful is that? Because that's a mindshift change for her, but that is also a mindshift change for the industry because that example shows both men and women how we can show up for each other in this industry and how we can make a difference. And by doing those small things, we can influence from the top and from the bottom. So I think, you know, it's that effect that ripples through the industry. And that's the power of one.
Shireen: Yeah, really powerful stuff there. And I know, we can throw statistics around even the progression routes of people being on Advance, on Lead, and if people want to see them, they're definitely on our website and in reports and things. But I think that ripple effect is so important around, yes, for Lead, you might have a cohort of 16, 17, 18 people, but actually what effects that person have after being on an eight-month programme. The conversations they're having, the female speakers that we have at every workshop. What impact does that have in creating your own network and supporting yourself? But that meeting that you go into straight after you've been on the workshop, how do you present yourself? Exactly what Laura said around coming out of a certain topic and then being able to have conversations with colleagues.
And it is, everything's that ripple effect, isn't it? It is all about how do you support the one to support the many? And we know statistics around if you support women through development, actually the teams benefit and we get that. But there's just something in there around having that lived experience. I think by having these types of conversations, you can't really put a price on it; it is very much the intangibles, I think, is what I'm describing there.
Laura and Fiona, from your experiences of being on the Advance programme?
Laura: I had a female mentor, which was actually really… because my boss, who's a great ally, was male, you know, the majority of the management around me were male. So actually seeing a woman in that position and being able to go to a senior leadership woman for advice, for guidance, to rant, to just ask the questions that I could ask my male manager - as I said, he was brilliant - but I wouldn't have got a response from a woman. And that, for me, was the really big thing, that Sam gave me the opportunity to speak to a woman who I wanted to be rather than going to men who didn't understand the experiences that I'd had.
Fiona: Well, this was my first year as a mentor. And again, you know, little apprehension going in, thinking what could I possibly offer anyone? And I mean, from my experience, I couldn't have been matched with anyone more perfect, if I'm honest. It was a really, really great experience. We were so similar in a lot of ways, which I think helped, because we had some quite deep conversations about upbringings and, you know, things like that, both with ADHD. So I imagine maybe it wouldn't be like that every time, but you know, certainly this time it was, I couldn't believe it, how perfectly matched we were. But it gave me confidence coming out of it thinking I've come away from that, genuinely knowing that I'd helped somebody. And again, that does your own confidence a lot of good. And I think having that mentor outside of your own, you know, obviously transport's quite broad and I've always sat here thinking that transport was just logistics and trucks, but it's not, so when you start to learn about trains and things like that too, it's quite eye-opening. So it's been a great experience, definitely.
Shireen: I love that. What great testimonies for Lead and for Advance, and yeah, you're right. The transport sector is huge. I mean, every day I'm learning about different areas of transport, and like the cold chain side of it was really new for me. And you know, its applications to medicine as well as delivering your daily essentials. I think these are all bits that we need to showcase more and role-model, and I think Lead and Advance really give us those opportunities to showcase lived experience as you quite nicely highlighted actually through the matching process, but also that regular contact that we're having through both of those programmes.
Nky: I'm excited. I look forward to going on Advance with all that I've heard today. You know, if Lead can do that, I am curious and excited to see what Advance can do for me, and to what has been said: having done Lead, I find myself putting those things into practice. Not just for me, but everyone around me. You know, Sonya said something that everybody has a sphere of influence, so within my sphere of influence, where I can, I just share automatically the learnings, you know?
Iain: So I think I'd add this as well, because I have lightbulb moments. I've been on the Lead programme 12 and a half times, and we talk a lot in the programme about Teach to Learn. So the idea that if you pick up a new concept and you have to explain it to somebody else, you have to internalise it in order to be able to do that. And you have to use your own vocab and your own stories and the fact that Shireen and I get to do that regularly means that we are learning all the time as well. I think that helps us keep the program fresh, but it's also a fantastic learning experience for ourselves.
And so my lightbulb moments are often around, oh, you know what? The network's fantastic. Or if I have someone supporting me in getting that pay rise, actually I'm more likely to get that. And, you know, the power of reflection. So I think about that a lot, particularly as we send out the workbooks and the workbooks ask, you know, please reflect on what you've learned on this module. And so increasingly I'm doing that myself. And so, as I say, regularly going through the Lead programme, as a participant myself, even though I'm also leading it with Shireen at the same time.
Shireen: How do you feel about the future of women in Transport? So that kind of leadership space. What does leadership now mean for you? Either being a facilitator or founder of various parts of the Women in Transport network, being a recipient of things. What do you feel now about women in leadership?
Fiona: I think leadership for me, especially as I go forward in new areas, it is just about being authentic and vulnerable and brave enough to actually put your head above the parapet. Is that right? And actually not just sit there and, and take what we don't need to take, you know? And I think it's, it's just, yeah, it's about being authentic, vulnerable, and showing up.
Laura: Two things that spring to mind. First thing, and the big one for me, is knowing that in this journey I'm not alone. And that there are so many other people who are sharing these experiences. And secondly, that leadership for me now is something that I can go forward with confidence in my beliefs and my actions. And that can only be a good thing for the people around me.
Iain: I really like the Steve Radcliffe model that we talk about: the idea that you describe the future state, and that you engage people to want to join in and help you move towards that, and then that you drive delivery. So F-E-D is what leadership means for me.
Nky: Yeah. Leadership for me is knowing that anyone can be a leader. It's not tied to your title. It's tied to what you can do, what you can give to others. So leadership for me is being a leader that raises leaders up. And how does one do that? By helping people to see their strengths and helping people to work to their strengths, because we're all different.
Angela: I think for me, at the stage of my career, I think leadership for me is about supporting others, personally, and leadership within the industry is having a voice and confidence. And if we can find ways to expand the conversation that's needed to both encourage individuals to have confidence in voice and at the same time a conversation about the environment, because individuals can only go so far. And I think the environment, however wonderful we all are and strong - just a quick vignette that in London Underground, I looked around at my colleagues who had all been successful women, and this was a while ago now, and I could see that we were all the more assertive types on the whole, other than a few wonderful women at head office roles, but when I moved into operations, you had to almost verge on, I think someone said, being aggressive rather than authentic and the soft side. And I think the conversation needs to be around: women can do it differently, even if you still have to be a little bit alpha and assertive in some roles. Yeah, so authenticity and confidence and voice.
Sonya: I think leadership for me now means using the platform and influence that I do have to enable conversations that others might not be able to have. So whether that's raising challenging or uncomfortable topics so that other women don't have to necessarily feel like they have to be the ones to start those conversations. Whether that's about, at the TfL event earlier this year, talking about the fact that was actively breastfeeding, and that enabled somebody to come forward and say, actually I'm in that situation and need an adjustment for that. Well, you know, if you can create those safe spaces and you use your position and your voice to do that, then I think that's really powerful.
And also I find myself in the space of wanting to ensure that Women in Transport endures well past me, so that it's there for future generations of women to offer that support.
Shireen: Wonderful. I love that we're looking at today, but also we're looking at the future and really how we create all of this in a sustainable way. I think that's wonderful.
Thank you so much for the conversation today. We'll put links into the show information. Do check it out. From a listener perspective, if you’ve got any questions you can always email info@womenintransport.com.
Sonya: Thank you for listening to the Women In Transport podcast. Together we're championing inclusion and celebrating the women driving change across the transport sector. To join the conversation, connect with us and explore more stories. Head to the episode show-notes.